Talk:Action film

Is Action a Genre???

It is the most recent of film genres, but is it really a genre?? For me it's just a sub-genre of thriller/suspense with more action than your average thriller. 201.42.211.28 (talk) 23:36, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

There have been several books citing it here as a genre. Please note that your suggestions are against WP:OR. Regardless, I do not think the films of Jackie Chan would be part of any subgenre of thrillers for example. Andrzejbanas (talk) 02:56, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Martial arts films in general are hard to re-categorize as thrillers or crime, though that can be a secondary characteristic. The style of fighting is so prominent and so characteristic of MA movies that it becomes their defining trait, so in that sense I think they are very "pure" action movies. Of course that's up for debate. Alexgriffith (talk) 22:00, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes, action is a genre by its OWN. People even argue that horror is also part of thriller. This just makes the thriller genre way too broad. Action and horror are both evolved enough to be by THEMSELVES - individual genres. In actuality, thriller should also be a sugbenre of crime or drama because most have incredible amounts of drama and crime elements. You see, this goes like a domino effect. I hereby say that action, thriller and horror are individual genres. They can diverge, but not usually.User:Lionhead99 (talk) 20:56, 8 June 2012 (EST)

I agree with Lionhead99 and would add that what makes action a genre isn't just the common "content" tropes - the lone hero, the resolution of conflicts through violence, and car chases or other familiar set pieces - but also how it's filmed. I'm going to add a sections called something like "Camerwork in Action Cinema" or "Action Cinema", discussing kinetic editing, shakey cam, steadicam, quick cuts, using Paul Greengrass, Quentin Tarantino, and John Woo as examples. I'll also link to a really good video-essay by Matthias Stork on the decline of action cinema. One opinion among many but it's good to include the general internet discussion on a topic's Wiki page. Let me know what you think! Alexgriffith (talk) 20:17, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

References

References to use

Please add to the list references that can be used for the film article.

• Brown, Jeffrey A. (2011). Dangerous Curves: Action Heroines, Gender, Fetishism, and Popular Culture. University Press of Mississippi. ISBN 978-1-60473-714-1.
• Donovan, Barna William (2008). The Asian Influence on Hollywood Action Films. McFarland. ISBN 978-0-7864-3403-9.
• Donovan, Barna William (2009). Blood, Guns, and Testosterone: Action Films, Audiences, and a Thirst for Violence. Scarecrow Press. ISBN 978-0-8108-7262-2.
• Gallagher, Mark (2006). Action Figures: Men, Action Films, and Contemporary Adventure Narratives. Palgrave Macmillan. ISBN 978-1-4039-7012-1.
• Inness, Sherrie A. (2004). Action Chicks: New Images of Tough Women in Popular Culture. Palgrave Macmillan. ISBN 978-1-4039-6403-8.
• Lichtenfeld, Eric (2007). Action Speaks Louder: Violence, Spectacle, and the American Action Movie. Wesleyan. ISBN 978-0-8195-6801-4.
• Logan, Bey (1996). Hong Kong Action Cinema. Overlook TP. ISBN 978-0-87951-663-5.
• Purse, Lisa (2011). Contemporary Action Cinema. Edinburgh University Press. ISBN 978-0-7486-3817-8.
• Schubart, Rikke (2007). Super Bitches and Action Babes: The Female Hero in Popular Cinema, 1970–2006. McFarland & Company. ISBN 978-0-7864-2924-0.
• Sims, Yvonne D. (2006). Women of Blaxploitation: How the Black Action Film Heroine Changed American Popular Culture. McFarland & Company. ISBN 978-0-7864-2744-4.
• Stork, Matthias (2011). Chaos Cinema: The decline and fall of action filmmaking. Press Play http://blogs.indiewire.com/pressplay/video_essay_matthias_stork_calls_out_the_chaos_cinema. {{cite AV media}}: External link in |publisher= (help)
• Tasker, Yvonne (2004). The Action and Adventure Cinema. Routledge. ISBN 978-0-415-23507-5. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Erik (talk • contribs) 21:13, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Non-free file problem

File:Sonny Chiba The Street Fighter.JPG was removed from this article because it either does not have a Non-free use rationale or there are problems with the existing rationale. Please see Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria for the applicable policy and Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline for how to fix the problem. If further input or help is needed, questions can be directed towards Wikipedia:Media copyright questions, the help desk or my talk page. Thank you. Toshio Yamaguchi (talk) 10:24, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Grammatical and stylistic problems with the article

I have attempted to remove grammatical issues in the portion of the article that explains the history of the action film. There are many cases where sentences could be compressed and words could be eliminated, and I have tried to do this for clarity.

I'm not going to alter the overall narrative of the history of the action film, although I do have some problems with the way it is presented here. It seems that the author(s) are using their personal knowledge of action films but are not providing the proper references to back up their claims.RoyalBlue43 (talk) 00:56, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Removal of Top Ten Lists

In an effort to contribute to the clean-up effort, I have removed two sizable sections including lists of the "top ten" action films and actors. Though clearly made in good faith, these lists were based upon somewhat subjective information; a single IMDB link alone for each section is an insufficient reference, and a "top" anything that cannot be quantified is inherently un-encyclopedic. "Top-ten grossing films" would be okay (though probably not necessary in this article), but "top-ten" alone is not. Please discuss any other changes before implementing them. --Jackson Peebles (talk) 04:50, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Sub genres

I've removed sections of sub-genres that either

• didn't have sources
• stated information that was not in their sources at all.

I don't believe they should be re-added without sources. Andrzejbanas (talk) 11:29, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

The recent additions to these sections again state information that is not in the source. The action adventure genre is pulled from this and does not state what is written here at all. Same with the action-drama sources here, this one is referring to television genres, not film, this is no appropriate so I'll have them removed. Andrzejbanas (talk) 17:22, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

It would have been better to rewrite according to the sources. This was the book which I took info on action adventure from. Kailash29792 (talk) 17:52, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Looking at that page, it still says what is stated in the previous source, which was not stated at all on your source. This authors definition seems to be nearly the same as the action thriller definition item as well. Which would look weird on the page. Andrzejbanas (talk) 13:28, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

77Survivor, please comment. Let's come to a consensus that allows redirects like action drama film and action adventure film to remain undeleted and correctly targeting anywhere without being broken redirects. Kailash29792 (talk) 14:08, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Well, first off, I am sorry for responding late. I too think that redirects to action drama film and action adventure film should at least remain undeleted. There are many movies that combines these genres, and I've myself used the aforementioned redirects instead of mentioning them separately. But as for listing the sub-genres on the article page itself, it's a bit difficult to say. Action can be combined with any other genre, and I'd agree with what AllMovie says for the genre's speciality:

"the various other action subgenres too numerous to mention." [1]

But redirects are pretty harmless. Especially when a lot of Indian movies make use of them, mostly action-dramas. Action-adventure still remains an uncharted territory for many movies, but given there are movies that combine both the genres instead of falling into just one, I think redirects shouldn't be a problem. I'm not going to question the removal of sub-genres such as action-crime because again, action can be combined with any other genre and that would make the combinations, too numerous to mention. (77Survivor (talk) 14:42, 8 July 2020 (UTC))

I'm sorry but the removed subgenres do exist, and if you're unhappy with the sources at the moment, I will add more sources to back them up. 2A02:C7F:6E64:1C00:6D74:7E53:B048:55D6 (talk) 15:06, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you 2A02:C7F:6E64:1C00:6D74:7E53:B048:55D6 for restoring those sections. Now please add more sources to the films mentioned under Action -horror. Kailash29792 (talk) 15:14, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Will do tomorrow when I'm a little freer. 2A02:C7F:6E64:1C00:6D74:7E53:B048:55D6 (talk) 15:17, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

I've re-removed them as the current sources and content re-added was not backed up by their source. I'm happy for re-adding them, but I can't think of any instance when you should be re-adding them with sources that do not reflect the content. Andrzejbanas (talk) 15:51, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Andrzejbanas, did you read mine and 77Survivor's comments? Also, did you read this source I had added? Page 174 says, "Action-adventure films were among the most popular movies of the 1980s. The three Indiana Jones films, starring Harrison Ford, are the archetype of this genre, in which the male hero performs remarkable feats that require bravery and skill throughout a fast-paced 90-minute struggle with an evil villain. The hero ultimately emerges triumphant after several close calls, defeating the villain, saving the day, and usually winning the affection of the female lead. One version of this genre places the hero in faraway, exotic lands, making the villains and the action more unpredictable." Taking info from that, I wrote the section which you mercilessly reverted, saying it does not match the source. Kailash29792 (talk) 15:58, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

I must have made a mistake. I was distracted that all the other content re-added without a source (or sources that didn't match their content). I am confused how they say "one version of this genre" which does not sound like a really strong argument of what the genre is about. Also, is this genre more related to adventure films, or more related to action films? They seem to go on about it also belonging to the Vietnam War genre style, but then list things like Rush Hour which seem to contradict what the style of the genre is. I apologize though, it was a mistake on my part. Andrzejbanas (talk) 16:04, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Coinage of the term

Some time in maybe the mid 80s A writer from the northern US was discussing with my girlfriend an article he was writing about the genre. He was having a problem with what to call the genre. My girlfriend, having previously discussed our preferences in movies where I told her I preferred more action than she did, called me into the conversation asking what the genre of movies like "Rambo" was called. I did not know but made up the term "action movie". Both her, and the writer literally burst in recognition of the appropriateness of the term. Shortly after that the term was widely used in publication. I say this for anyone who wants to research the coinage of the term to look in northern US publications mid 1980s for origin of the term.

98.164.71.229 (talk) 06:43, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 August 2020 and 10 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Tpourci1, Kmklein1, Troygreen65. Peer reviewers: Aellengray, Favaa98, Laurensmith18.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 13:22, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Action film

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Action film's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "lim":

• From Vigilante film: Lim, Dennis (October 19, 2009). "Revenge, our cinematic tradition". Los Angeles Times.
• From Taxi Driver: Lim, Dennis (October 19, 2009). "Vigilante films, an American tradition". Los Angeles Times. Archived from the original on December 8, 2015. Retrieved December 6, 2015.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 09:24, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Information Literacy and Scholarly Discourse

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 January 2022 and 21 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): TaskenLander99 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Nicolle.howard.

— Assignment last updated by Mlclark1 (talk) 13:22, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Information Literacy and Scholarly Discourse

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 6 June 2022 and 29 July 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): RobbyRobinson1 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Queso2022.

— Assignment last updated by Atufail (talk) 01:06, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Information Literacy and Scholarly Discourse

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 15 August 2022 and 7 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): DAntebell3, TruLegend3 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Neg78, Justiceross 20.

— Assignment last updated by Dsackey (talk) 18:13, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Re-write

So....I re-wrote the entire article. I've been slowly trying to clean up articles on film genres (see Horror film, Thriller film, Mystery film, etc.) Most of this was unsourced or just did not have any real clear information (citing IMDb, citing nothing, having a history section just be a list of popular films with little context to the a history). I've basically tried to make it stick to scholarly information and publications and cleaned out fillers on actors, etc. It needs some expansion still, but I would appreciate some checking in on this.

My main issues with my own re-write:

• It's very Hollywood centric, which I think is fine for now, we can build on it like I have in the horror film section on regional areas.
• Action history kind of cuts off around 2010. There is a new book Yvonne coming out this year which covers the 21st century action film.
• Some weird issues: Is a martial arts film a sub-genre of the action film? They exist before the contemporary understanding of what action cinema exists, so I don't think it would be 100% correct to call it that.
• I've removed most of the hybrid genres which just all politely say "science fiction action is action and science together. action horror is action and horror together." These are all kind of...useless and felt as embarrassing as these films can be ;)

I look forward to anyone's response on this. Andrzejbanas (talk) 06:41, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

I just wish you hadn't deleted insightful sources such as this and this. Kailash29792 (talk) 09:40, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Nothing's deleted. It's all accessable via the article history. But I'll be honest, I don't see the The Flickering Myth as being a strong source. It honestly appears to be a blog? Andrzejbanas (talk) 12:36, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

First, let me just say that any effort in cleaning up these genre articles is greatly appreciated! I think a lot of editors in the film project get bogged down with other tasks, so much so that these articles tend to fall by the wayside.

Flickering Myth is a blog site, but it is self-proclaimed as one of UK's "most influential" (at least at one time, but is that still true?). The site also appears to be run by subject matter experts as well. However, the site's presentation is sub-par IMO and gives off unprofessional vibes. I wouldn't mind if it's cited sparingly, but for any strong claims, I think it's best used as a complementary source only. My 2¢ --GoneIn60 (talk) 17:16, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! This one has been the most fun to do some research and reading on so far. There citations seem relatively not in-depth (the action horror one reads like a fanzine, there is almost no insight whatsoever.) I do recall the phrase arthouse action being tossed around, but I think it needs more critical depth than the other citation also currently has. On googling, i'm just surrounded by listicals which barely register. Andrzejbanas (talk) 18:50, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

I've basically moved the Hong Kong section into part of the main history. Research best suggests it should be understood from two angles: the Hong Kong film history of it and the Hollywood-style. That way, you can say Hollywood-style and still include things that obviously aren't American like Mad Max 2 in it. I have found information on more specific Australian mode of action films, so i'll try to include that in the future.Andrzejbanas (talk) 19:22, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Arthouse action film into Action film

On trying to look up serious journalism on the topic, I've come up empty-handed. This sub-genre is mostly from a blog, with no real industry observation. It appears to be just used amongst enthusiastic bloggers irregularly and with no cohesion to what constitutes the genre. Andrzejbanas (talk) 23:54, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

I nominate to keep this article as it is Espngeek (talk) 00:40, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

It doesn't really address that there is no real serious journalism or critical analysis of what the genre is. Could you provide some @Espngeek:? Andrzejbanas (talk) 00:57, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Define "serious journalism" in order for this article to merge Espngeek (talk) 03:15, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Like, non-blogs or listicles that can discuss the genre. Andrzejbanas (talk) 04:22, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Can we merge this article already? Espngeek (talk) 15:05, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

I would generally just have this re-direct at this moment. The list generally does not state the genre claimed for most films. We'd still need a better citation for the genre lead, but if you are comfortable, I'm happy to do that. Andrzejbanas (talk) 22:10, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Going to go ahead and move it as there hasn't been any real discussion beyond this. Andrzejbanas (talk) 19:30, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

@Espngeek:. I have yet to really find anything referring to this genre in any serious history, discussion, or more than one multiple source outside cheap listicles trying to categorize this genre. I'm proposing it gets removed if we can't find anything more detailed and as this article is expanding. Andrzejbanas (talk) 16:06, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Its been over a month and I have not heard from ESPNgeek and have not found any real serious writing or articles trying to define or give any serious critical insight to this sub-genre. I'm going to remove it from the article for now, and suggest potentially re-adding it when more material is discovered. Andrzejbanas (talk) 14:37, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Though, "Arthouse Action" is not mentioned at any point in the article.--2A02:560:5448:9E00:7597:B9A4:F503:549B (talk) 22:09, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

No content was found that Wikipedia listed as a reliable sources were found to discuss the topic in any sort of depth. Andrzejbanas (talk) 17:19, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Some films (Inception, No Time to Die) are described as both arthouse and action by some critics, but I guess that's not enough to define it as genre. The article arthouse action film should be completely deleted then, if there are no reliable sources. --2A02:560:547D:7E00:5D7C:BBAE:6046:84FA (talk) 18:20, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I mean, its a start, but beyond it just being briefly described as such, we'd probably want some article that has a bit more meat on its bone about the genre itself, or better yet, a few articles/academic research/etc. I was hoping to find some when i re-did the article, but alas, I did not come up with much. Andrzejbanas (talk) 18:52, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

On trying to find anyone discussing it as a genre, the only thing I found that goes a little indepth is this Collider listicle. Its not really that useful to apply as they say in the same paragraph that "arthouse" "the term isn't a genre in the same way that drama, comedy, or thriller are all types of genres. Arthouse can sometimes be a genre but it also feels like the term describes a type of movie, based on its style and overall feel." and "Regardless of whether it's seen as a genre or something else, "arthouse" can be combined with all sorts of other genres to give you, for example, arthouse drama films or arthouse horror movies. And while arthouse films may sound as though they're in opposition to something with broad appeal, like the action genre, it's very much possible to have arthouse action movies; artistic and offbeat yet exciting and action-packed movies. These are rare but fascinating films, with the following being examples of some of the best arthouse action films of all time." I'm going to suggest we keep have it re-direct to "Hybrid genre" section which probably better captures the seemingly convoluted nature of the term. Andrzejbanas (talk) 13:13, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Sub-genre removal

I've removed a recent addition of sub-genres. Without context or real unique specifics, I think the hybrid genre section covers basically what would be expected. They are hybrids and are used in different contexts depending on who is calling it that. Trying to define them won't agree with anyone. Andrzejbanas (talk) 00:30, 19 February 2024 (UTC) To follow up on this, I do not think it's a great idea to make the hybrid genre thing a dumping ground for listing numbers of hybrids. I have confidence in a reader they can understand what a hybrid genre means from the few examples and that they are all vague in how they can be interpreted. Andrzejbanas (talk) 15:08, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

History

The history section actually drops anything what happened before 1960s; e.g. The Great Train Robbery (1903 film) had already anthing what later would be substantial to action movies, stunts, shootouts, pursuits. In the 1930s serial films did the same. For sure these weren't pure action films yet, but important precedessors. --2A02:560:5491:6700:8B0:DB6D:4BA9:C9C9 (talk) 14:48, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

There were tons of films with scenes of stunts and scenes of spectacle and other action-film-esque materia, but they weren't described as action films as we would know them today. It would be an Anachronism to refer to these films that way and to assume they were the forebarers would also be presumed. The article goes into detail about this already. Andrzejbanas (talk) 15:52, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

The great train robbery was one of the longest and most detailed movies of that time. It is relevant so. No, the article doesn't go into detail about the history yet at all. There is a brief mention of "action adventure" from 1910s but the Hollywood section of history omitts anything before Bullit (1968), although there are many movies defining the action genre before: North by Northwest 1959, James Bond since 1962... The whole history of action movies between 1910 and 1960 isn't written yet at all in this article.--2A02:560:5448:9E00:7597:B9A4:F503:549B (talk) 22:18, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

That's because the sources from academics state that the global idea of what is considered in contemporary minds as the action film does not really register until around the 1980s. (the article goes into this). And it states several films contain "scenes of action", they aren't really about that prior. While the Bond films are definitely early precursors to the style, their influence as action films is far less wide than their influence or status as spy films. This isn't my opinion, this is what I've read from the several academic books and journal entries on the topic @-2A02:560:5448:9E00:759: Andrzejbanas (talk) 12:31, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

If the history of Shanghai/wuxia films is told here from its beginnings, for the american film it should be the same. It should be described where the action genre got its influence from, before it was identified as proper genre. A academic source what states the influence of older film genres (serial films, western (genre), adventure films, wuxia, maybe film noir...) on the action genre would by worthy.

• Here is something about North by Northwest.
• The Action hero article offers many things which could be included here. --19:03, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

The term "action hero" did not come up much in studies specifically to this genre. While the Toronto Star article does call North by Northwest an action film or an influence on Bond, there is little depth in applying it to the genre. That said, we don't need an article to re-gurgitate the history of westerns, film noir, adventure films, etc within this article. This is about action films, not those specific genres. I can try to expand it with some information from these sources, but as stated in the article "The formative [action] films would be from the 1960s to the early 1980s where the Anti-hero appears in cinema, featuring characters who act and transcend the law and social conventions. This appears initially in films like Bullitt (1968) where a tough police officer protects society by upholding the law against systematic corruption." These are the films that form the basis beyond just having action scenes, as action scenes are already evident in several other genres, including westerns, adventure films, and such. Andrzejbanas (talk) 18:51, 12 November 2024 (UTC)