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Previous discussions concerning the infobox in the top right corner of the article can be found at Talk:African Americans/summary.

Semi-protected edit request on 29 September 2024

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Hispanic or Latino group is 18.7% while African-Americans or Blacks are 12.1% according to the 2020 census. 96.246.86.51 (talk) 03:49, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

African-Americans or Blacks as the 2nd largest ethnic group in the U.S. is categorically and emphatically incorrect. Please correct.

Not done: I understand your confusion, however African-Americans are a specific, singular ethno-racial group as measured by the US census, whereas "Hispanic or Latino" is an umbrella category used to measure a multiplicity of ethnicities and races that fall under it. I hope this clears some things up. Glass Snow (talk) 09:01, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Last sentence of lede (again)

The end of the lede currently reads:

The term "African American" generally denotes descendants of Africans enslaved in the United States.^[1]^[2]

There was previously a citation to a source from Martin & Fabes that specified that African-Americans had to be descendants of people enslaved specifically within the United States, but I WP:BOLDly removed that source as Martin & Fabes is an introductory child development textbook, and neither of the authors claim to be experts in racial identity or anything remotely related to being a reliable source for the term "African American" (both are white psychologists, one specialized in gender identity, the other in children's relationships). I moved up another source from later in the article that talks about the introduction of the phrase, but neither it nor the remaining Locke and Bailey source specify that the ancestors have to have been enslaved within the United States. Therefore, I am proposing changing the sentence to:

The term "African American" generally denotes American descendants of those taken from Africa as part of the Atlantic slave trade.^[1]^[2]

Since this sentence has been the subject of a few discussions here in the past, I wanted to bring this to the talk page first.

References

^ ^a ^b Locke, Don C.; Bailey, Deryl F. (2013). Increasing Multicultural Understanding. SAGE Publications. p. 106. ISBN 978-1483314211. Archived from the original on August 18, 2018. Retrieved March 7, 2018. African American refers to descendants of enslaved Black people who are from the United States. The reason we use an entire continent (Africa) instead of a country (e.g., Irish American) is because slave masters purposefully obliterated tribal ancestry, language, and family units in order to destroy the spirit of the people they enslaved, thereby making it impossible for their descendants to trace their history prior to being born into slavery.
^ ^a ^b Wilkerson, Isabel (January 31, 1989). "'African-American' Favored By Many of America's Blacks". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved December 28, 2020. A movement led by the Rev. Jesse Jackson to call blacks African-Americans has met with both rousing approval and deep-seated skepticism in a debate that is coming to symbolize the role and history of blacks in this country. ... The question of a name has caused pain and controversy since the first Africans were captured and shipped to the Americas in the 17th century. The slaves called themselves Africans at first, but slave masters gave them English names and called them Negroes, the Portuguese word for black, historians say. That term was resented by some blacks who said it was degrading when whites mispronounced it, accidentally or intentionally.

--Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 15:30, 1 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please add back Louisiana Creole French Under Languages

I noticed it has been removed without explanation and as an LA Creole myself this is an important aspect of AA Heritage and culture that has been wiped from the page. it has been there for a decade and was only removed this year. 66.163.89.16 (talk) 21:52, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

According to the Wiki, there are only 77 thousand native speakers.

Even if all of them are African American (which is highly unlikely) it would constitute a very tiny minority of African Americans. It's removal probably has to do with that.

Inclusions of such minorities of <0.1% for a language, amongst other topics, would clutter the article. Gelbom (talk) 02:17, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It was only listed under the languages tab on the side, so the argument of it cluttering the article makes no sense. Also, a Louisiana Creole cuisine is a language of African-American people from people that are of Louisiana Creole Heritage. It seems like you are not very educated on this topic respectfully, but I don’t expect many people to really know about our history as LA Creoles. My reason for saying this was a lack of understanding made apparent to me in your first few sentences when you say you doubt that All of these speakers are African-American, when it is quite literally language of that group, a specific cultural heritage within African-American people. It’s a part of the diversity of AA people based on regional heritage and history.

By the same logic you’ve used, Gullah Geechee should be removed as well because it’s an incredibly tiny fraction of African-American people based on regional cultural heritage, but it still is a part of it which is why it’s listed. This is why they both were listed side-by-side until February of this year. Again is erasure of the diversity of African-American people. 65.43.209.212 (talk) 03:17, 3 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My bad. I got redirected to Louisiana French. This language has only 10,000 speakers according to wiki. Which would probably mean there are over 100 languages with more speakers in the African American community.

Unless African American is to mean those largely decendant from United States black slaves imported to the US over 150 years ago, it might reduce speakers above 10k to 50 langauges. That is still a long list.

I suppose however that the language having it's genesis among American blacks does merit its mention however. So I suppose I am inclined to support your decision.

(Also according to the wiki lede, it has other racial groups speaking it. This seems like a shoehorn but I'm inclined to believe not everyone of these 10k people are black.) Gelbom (talk) 21:38, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: Black American Music F24

This article is currently the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 August 2024 and 9 December 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Mensahrunit, Erobertsonn (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by JsWai (talk) 19:18, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Change title to Black Americans?

Since this post is talking about Black Americans, to the exclusion of North Africans, should the title not be Black Americans? Captchacatcher (talk) 18:33, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:COMMONNAME applies. African American is far more popular than Black American based on this Ngrams search. SKAG123 (talk) 05:13, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This debate happens so often it's not even funny. I have no idea why but it won't go away. Gabecube45 (talk) 23:23, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Francisco Menéndez, Fort Mose

The Hispanic model of identity and representation has been historically characterized by its multi-faceted nature, which transcends strict racial categorizations. Numerous figures exemplify this complexity, including San Martín de Porres, Beatriz de Palacios, Spanish conquistador Juan Garrido that established the first commercial wheat farm in the Americas,^[1] Estevanico, Francisco Menendez in Florida, Juan de Villanueva, Juan Valiente, Juan Beltrán, Pedro Fulupo, Juan Bardales, Antonio Pérez, Gómez de León, Leonor Galiano, Teresa Juliana de Santo Domingo and Juan García. Additionally, Juan Latino stands out as a significant figure in this discourse; he is recognized as the first black African to attend a European university, ultimately achieving the status of professor. This highlights the notion that the Hispanic identity is not monolithic and is instead enriched by diverse contributions across racial and ethnic lines. Such examples serve to challenge simplistic perceptions of race within the historical narrative of Hispanic culture. 31.164.184.21 (talk) 18:47, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Racial or ethnic group ?

Until recently, the lead sentence had "are an ethnic group".[1] Now, it's "racial group". I just reverted an addition claiming that African American normally refers to the ethnic group, Black Americans to the racial group. Any thoughts ? Rsk6400 (talk) 06:44, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should be more clear about ethnicity vs racial identification (as its clear its not clear to all). As of now we have an odd round about lead that takes a whole paragraph to say something simple.....just say Generally, the term Black denotes a racial identification, while African American refers to an ethnicity, specifically Americans with ancestry from one or more of the African continent's Black racial groups Moxy🍁 07:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But what do we do with the first sentence ? Rsk6400 (talk) 08:14, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

“African American,”refers to people in the United States who self identity as having origins from Sub-Saharan Africa. Generally, the term Black denotes a racial identification, while African American refers to an ethnicity, specifically Americans with ancestry from one or more of the African continent's Black racial groups. APA style guide Moxy🍁 08:33, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We should say it's both a racial and an ethnic group. Both are mentioned and supported in the lead and body. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 13:05, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I tried "racial or ethnic group" because the word "or" is as ambiguous as the problem itself. I also used Moxy's idea of self identification. But as I read the style guide, it is not clear whether "Black" and "African American" can be clearly distinguished. Just a try, feel free to comment and / or improve. Rsk6400 (talk) 16:22, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

^ "Review | February 2012: 1493 by Charles Mann '76 | Amherst College". www.amherst.edu. Retrieved 2024-10-28.

[Locke-1] Locke, Don C.; Bailey, Deryl F. (2013). Increasing Multicultural Understanding. SAGE Publications. p. 106. ISBN 978-1483314211. Archived from the original on August 18, 2018. Retrieved March 7, 2018. African American refers to descendants of enslaved Black people who are from the United States. The reason we use an entire continent (Africa) instead of a country (e.g., Irish American) is because slave masters purposefully obliterated tribal ancestry, language, and family units in order to destroy the spirit of the people they enslaved, thereby making it impossible for their descendants to trace their history prior to being born into slavery.

[wilkersonnyt-2] Wilkerson, Isabel (January 31, 1989). "'African-American' Favored By Many of America's Blacks". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Retrieved December 28, 2020. A movement led by the Rev. Jesse Jackson to call blacks African-Americans has met with both rousing approval and deep-seated skepticism in a debate that is coming to symbolize the role and history of blacks in this country. ... The question of a name has caused pain and controversy since the first Africans were captured and shipped to the Americas in the 17th century. The slaves called themselves Africans at first, but slave masters gave them English names and called them Negroes, the Portuguese word for black, historians say. That term was resented by some blacks who said it was degrading when whites mispronounced it, accidentally or intentionally.

[3] "Review | February 2012: 1493 by Charles Mann '76 | Amherst College". www.amherst.edu. Retrieved 2024-10-28.

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